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84. Stand Up Presence - Olivia Carter

In this episode, Stand-Up Presence, we sit down with Olivia Carter, KC native now NYC-based stand up comedian, writer, and actress. 

Olivia gives us a sneak-peak into the comedy scene, starting from the very beginning of her comedic development in college–featuring professor Jen Vellenga! 

Hear how Olivia has developed her stage persona and how she finds audience and “heckler” interactions feed into her presence. She highlights how she’s avoided being boxed into archetypes and how studying theatre shaped her trajectory into the world of stand-up. 

Watch Olivia on Kill Tony, episode #639. Find Olivia at the 21:30 mark.

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Read the transcript below

If you’re thinking like, oh, I gotta be funny, I gotta be funny, you’re not really listening to them and what they’re actually saying to you. So you can’t respond naturally.  And so every time I like go up on stage and I’m not very present, it just shows so much because it’s just you. So like, if I’m just phoning through a joke and sometimes like I’m talking and I’m like not even paying attention to what I’m saying.  Like, it’s not going to land because no one is connecting to you. 

Welcome to the Speak with Presence podcast, where perfection is overrated, leaders listen, and we all speak up to influence change. I’m Jen Vellenga. And I’m Jennifer Rettele-Thomas. This season, we’re interviewing the voices of Kansas City, and today we have Olivia Carter, who’s a stand-up comic out of New York City, but considers herself to have grown up in the Kansas City area.

Yes. For sure. Kansas City. And I moved after I graduated college. I was there forever. How do you know Olivia? Well, Olivia was a student of mine. That is how I know her. And I can still remember when she came to visit campus with her mom. She was a high school senior, and she was asking all about comedy and and if she could focus on comedy as a theater student. And then Olivia, you got really involved in the improv group, which was a student organization.  You were very interested in improv.

Can you tell us about that?  Yeah, I was super into that in college. It was just like, so fun and we were all just like big fans of comedy and there really wasn’t stand up there, like there wasn’t a stand-up club. They like, if you want to do comedy, was kind of like improv and there wasn’t really a sketch group so that was kind of where I like learned how to be funny and like what makes me funny and how I’d be funny with other people. And then once I left college, I started doing standup more because there was just more like resources for it. But yeah, I had a good time on the improv team. And that was like a big part of my college days. And then we got to kind of like do whatever we wanted and write sketches and have fun.

I think about you during that time and how your look or how you present as a tall, blonde bombshell and what you wanted to do or how you felt in your center like this kind of quirky, nerdy type. That seemed to be a disconnect and I wonder if that registered for you at the time.

I really didn’t think it in college looking back. I didn’t really think about my looks at all or how it affected me on stage. Like now that I do stand up and I’m the only person on stage, I think about it more. But I was just young and I didn’t think anything and then people would tell me like, yeah, you’re like the pretty lead. And I’d be like, oh, I don’t feel that way. And I think like there’s a lot of people in comedy now that I know who it’s like, you know, you look a certain way and then you can’t really have a personality and that’s just not very fun.  But there was like so many, like we did when we did taking steps, that was like, a lead girl who was kind of quirky and fun and weird. Yeah. It was the perfect part for you, your senior year and that particular show. You can’t do a big comedy unless you have the talent to do it.  Comedy is I think sometimes harder than drama. And so when you have a group of actors, especially in a university setting, who you know have some chops at comedy, you want to put on a show that uses those talents. 

Well, I would like to know as somebody that I’m very curious about your career, are you currently on tour?  Do you have your next gig? What does that look like in your life right now? Yeah. So I just relocated to New York, so I’m kind of starting over a bit. So I didn’t take any road gigs for a bit, and I’ve kind of just been here, and like, trying to do clubs here, and meet people, and network, and do the whole thing. But recently, now I’ve been taking more road gigs, like, at the end of the month, I’ll be in North Carolina. I’m opening for a friend who’s headlining, and then I’ll be doing a festival at the end of the month in Atlanta. So I’m trying to do more road stuff, just because if you go on the road, you get to do like more time and you can like headline a show. And it’s just like also fun to tour and meet new people, especially like small towns because they’re like groups of people that got a babysitter for the night and they’re going to go out and see comedy and they actually are really, really excited to be there and really want to laugh. And it’s really fun.

It feels like stand-up and sketch comedy is having a real moment in time right now. Do you sense that?  I think that stand up is definitely having a moment because you don’t need to go through any industry anymore. Like so many comics are huge and they got huge on their own, like posting online and building their own fan base.

So it used to be like, okay, I’ll work really hard and I’ll get into the clubs here. And then maybe one day someone sees me and you get like Comedy Central or something. And now it’s like, okay, I’m just kind of building my followers. So then one day I can just go on tour by myself. It’s like, it’s just kind of a different vibe and like a different path. And I don’t really know which one is the right one, or which one will work out. So, you just kind of throw your eggs in every basket. 

So, you’ve reached that goal that you set for yourself to work in comedy. Do you feel like you’ve achieved something big? When I was living in Chicago, and I had more of a, like, my footing in the scene, I felt like I was making a lot of money doing standup. And, I was like, close to quitting my day job. But it wasn’t really like the ceiling I wanted and there’s just, you know, you can get like trapped in a small city, I think, especially with like standup because there’s only like so many cities that are like have enough clubs for you. So, then I moved to New York and then some days here I feel really good. I have a ton of shows. I’m making money and then some days it’s not like that or you get a gig that pays you well or you get a while before you get one. So, it’s like up and down. You just kind of have to keep going and you’re like, I hope something will come soon. 

Tell us about the journey of what it was like to go from the Kansas City area to Chicago to New York. Can you share that with us? Yes, I lived in Milwaukee briefly before, like by myself and Milwaukee and it was COVID, and I didn’t really know what to do and there wasn’t like theater happening and there wasn’t like Improv that I knew of. So, I went to like an open mic and I’d never done standup before because it was like the only thing that you could do really creatively that was going on. And then I started doing standup and I was like, oh, this feels more right, like what I am supposed to be doing. It feels, because it’s like independent, like you choose how hard you wanna work at it. It’s like you’re not relying on anyone else.

And then I was like, okay, I think I’m gonna focus my energy on standup and away from like sketch and improv.  And then I moved to Chicago because there’s just like a bigger comedy scene and they have like Laugh Factory and Zany’s and you know, the whole thing. And then I was like, okay, I’ll just like work really hard here and then one day I’ll get into all the clubs. And then I got in pretty quickly and found my way around quickly. I think it was partly because of theater. I was like, I know how to be professional. I know how to perform. So, I figured things out quicker. And then I was like, okay, I figured out Chicago. I should probably leave now. So, then I moved to New York, which maybe was premature, but I don’t think so. I think it’s been working out and I’m glad I moved here.

When you were a student, we took a trip to Chicago, and I remember you very specifically wanted to make sure we saw stand up. I imagine now you’ve played in some of those clubs. Yeah, I wanted to go see stand up when we were on that trip because I’d never really seen stand up. We didn’t really have a stand-up scene in Kansas. I wasn’t really around it. I think now they have some clubs in Kansas City. But when I was there, I think they had like one open mic and you had to be like 21 to go. So, I remember wanting to try it in high school and I was like, I can’t really get in.

So once I was around standup more, I was like, oh, yeah, this is definitely what I want to do. But I’m glad I kind of didn’t start till later because I got to spend my time doing other creative things which I think helped me with stand up like I knew how to write a joke and perform it and kind of hold myself. So that added to it. It felt like people were like, oh, it seems like you’ve been doing it longer, but I think it’s because of all of the extra stuff I did in college.

Are there things that you learned as a theater major that helped you in your stand-up career? I think like what I started to understand about theater in college was that it is freelance and there’s not really like a normal structure to your life. You know? It’s not like you have like a nine to five and it’s a different lifestyle. And I think that was standup. It’s that as well. It’s like standup comics sleep until 10 and then they start their day and then they work all night.

And sometimes they’ll go up at like 2 AM, understanding that my life is going to look differently if I wanted to do theater in college.  Also marketing yourself. Like you have to kind of present yourself as like a brand. It helped a lot. And then we always did like, here’s my website. I have those skills now. I feel like I have like my website and my links and everything sorted out. Because you guys were like, you gotta have that.  Yep. You gotta have a website. Or at least have some way to be reached on social.

I know in your writing you had a very feminist slant when you were in school. Were those the early beginnings of some of your comic writing now?  When I read old things that I wrote, it was definitely very like, joke heavy. My main goal, even though I had a feminist slant, I was like, I just want this to be funny. I think is what a lot of it was. And I feel like with stand up, it’s really all about just making people laugh. Like, it’s not really about, it’s weird because when I started stand up, I was like, you have to like have something you’re saying, you have to have like a goal.

And it’s like, people just want to laugh. And if you want to say something, you have to make them laugh or else they’re not really going to care. And I feel like I was, um, you can’t really like go up on stage and like shit on men, you know, because that’s half of the audience. Like you’re looking at them and it’s a different group of people that are at a theater than are at a comedy club.

Like it’s not the same audience at all. Also like what was so hard for me when I started stand up was it took me so long to talk to the audience because I was trying to ignore anything that would happen in an audience. And like,  I was so trained to not, like, it was so hard for me to talk to audience members at first and look at them and then, like, once I understood that it’s just different in that way, but it took me so long to be, like, I’m talking to you and you’re in the audience, and now I do it, like, all the time and it feels normal, but that was something that took me, like, maybe my first year and a half of comedy to figure out like that it’s not theater.

So, as you know, our work is all about presence. So I’m curious, how does it serve you as a standup comedian? Oh, it definitely helps.  Like I said, the audience interaction, because if you’re thinking like, I gotta be funny, I gotta be funny. You’re not really listening to them and what they’re actually saying to you, so you can’t respond naturally. 

So every time I go up on stage and I’m not very present, it shows so much because it’s just you. So, like, if I’m just phoning through a joke, and sometimes, like, I’m talking and I’m like, I’m not even paying attention to what I’m saying. Like, it’s not gonna land because no one is connecting to you.

So you really have to be present and connect. And sometimes it’s kind of exhausting because you’re like, I’m really tired. Like I had a really long day, but you have to like hype yourself up and be like, I have to talk to these people. This is the only way it’s going to work is if I’m looking at them.

So I have like little notes on my phone, like things to remind myself before I go up, if I’m not really in the mood and I’ll be like, look at people, stay present. Like I have to stay present. I mean, it’s the same thing with theater. You have to really focus in on who you are and what you’re saying, but it’s like, it’s me for stand up.

Yeah, it’s 100 percent.  I just love the similarities between theater and stand up and leadership in the workplace. It’s all about communication and knowing your audience.  Do you have a perspective on or a way that you like to do crowd work? Well, sometimes like in between jokes, I like to be like, oh, does anyone, if I’m about to talk about like roller skating, just to be like, cause then people can go, yeah.

And you go, oh, you, and then a quick back and forth and then into what I want to talk about.  I feel like it’s a tool to bring people in. Comics all have their own passionate thoughts on crowd work and how you should use it. That’s just something I’m doing right now. And I think it really makes people like me and makes them be like, she’s my friend and we’re talking. 

And so I like crowd work for that, but I’m never wanting to spend like 10 minutes talking to somebody. It’s like, usually I try to get a laugh and then go into something. And then they’ll be like hecklers who like, and I don’t even think hecklers, as a term, it’s a harsh term. It sounds mean, but sometimes people are just having a really good time and they’re drunk and they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they’re like screaming out or they’re like, oh, she over here does that. Or they’re like just  having a good time, even though it’s really distracting to the show and everyone else that’s there. So you can’t be like mean. At least I don’t want to be mean. Some people are mean and like, can be roasty, and then that’s what people want to see.

But I don’t really try to be mean because I’m like, mostly, they’re having a good time if they’re like being loud. They’re just a little rowdy. So, it’s not fun. Like, it’s not fun when someone interrupts your joke. And sometimes you have to abandon the joke completely because you’re like, you ruined the whole setup.  Like, I can’t do the joke now. 

So I had this one heckler and it was not too long ago, and every time I paused, he would, like, scream something. He’d be like, bwaaah, or he’d like scream something, because he was really drunk. And it was a full room of people, and then eventually, every time he would do that, I would go, who said that? 

And, like, I’d look at him, and then he would stop talking, and it was like every time I tried to do a joke, he would do that, and then stop talking. And I don’t even think I figured it out, because I only had like 10 minutes. I think I was just like, that guy ruined my set, like he just ruined it. And then when I tried to engage with him, he wouldn’t engage with me. And then eventually, you can all get on the same page about screw this guy, but you can’t do jokes anymore, because you know, it’s like not about that. Now it’s about, we hate this guy. So that kind of sucks.

And then recently I did a show where this girl’s laugh was like distracting. Like her laugh was really loud and weird.  And that was like more fun because she ruined the joke, but she was having a good time. So I just said to her, you ruined the joke. Like I can’t do the joke. And, it wasn’t a big deal, but it is annoying when you’re like, or if I’m trying to work on a new joke or if it’s like a joke I’ve done before.  I’m like trying to think about it and then someone interrupts me and I’m like, oh, okay, I don’t even know where I was going with that.

But that’s really only like late night shows. Like the later the shows go in the night, the more rowdy they’re going to get. Sometimes if I’m doing a midnight show, I’ll even have a beer too, because I’m like, it’s weird that I’m fully sober up here and you guys are like really drunk people. Like it’s newer tourists who want to see a show and they couldn’t get into the Cellar. So now they’re at this show and they’re like hammered. And it’s just like, you can’t take it too seriously or else you’re going to lose your mind. Like those are the shows you just have to work through and be like, well, that was a lot of my energy.

Does anybody ever try to get rid of the heckler? Um, one time, I think I’ve had someone like, I mean a couple of times people have been asked to leave. Like if they’re really rude, they’ve been asked to leave. But usually, I mean, I don’t fight with people on stage. Like, some comics were like really go back and forth about it and then get them really riled up and then they’ll obviously be upset because they’re being yelled at by someone on stage and then they’ll be kicked out.

But during my set, no one’s been kicked out. After I’ve gone up, I’ve like gone up to management and I’m like, that guy is really a problem. And then if he’s still a problem, they’ll kick him out. I think one time, like a girl, literally I was starting the show, the show was starting and she was so wasted, she had to be carried out.

So that’s something that I’ve never had to deal with the theater, is like people being drunk and messed up because like, I don’t know why you would want to go sit in the theater if you were that drunk or like sit in a space, but I think it’s because they want to laugh. They just want to laugh. They just want to have a good time.

So it’s like, I get it. But yeah, that has been interesting dealing with drunk people. And then also after the show, they’ll come up to you and you’ll be like, I don’t really want to interact with you. Whenever like drunk people come up or they’re just clearly drunk and they’re like, I left you. I left you sad or something like that.

I really don’t like to engage because I like feel weird that I’m sober here. It’s weird because everyone’s having like a little party. Like all the audience members are having a little party and they’re having a really great time, but you’re like working and you’re like not partying. And so it’s a weird dynamic because they’re like, that was so fun.  And you’re like, I mean, I was working up there, like you screamed a lot during my set. So it’s a little interesting.

Sometimes I know comics that really don’t even like to talk to the audience members after the show, they’ll just like hide in the green room because it is kind of awkward because they think it’s like you and it is you, but you don’t know them. It wasn’t like a two-way conversation.

If you’re doing your job, they do feel like it’s a two-way conversation. But let’s get back to what I was mentioning earlier before, this whole idea of your persona, the kind of character you play around who you are and what you look like. How do you lean into that and what’s your persona for your stand up?

Yes, when I started stand up, I didn’t really want to be, like, looked at in an attractive way at all. And I remember I dressed really weird. I wore like really short hair and I wore overalls all the time. Yeah, that was all I wore on stage. And then it became, like, a thing. People were like, oh, you wear overalls. And I was like, oh, I don’t want that to be my thing. I was just trying to hide.

And then I started to be around other women that were doing comedy and dressing sexy and like dressing up or comfortable and just kind of dressing how they wanted to look and didn’t really think about it. And so I kind of had this realization. I don’t know if this is true for all creative people, but I was like, I think the more you think about who you are or how you’re presented, like the more stressed out you’re going to be. So I was like, I’m just going to do what I want, wear today or write about what I want to write about.  And the me that it creates, is the me that it creates. I don’t really know.

I can’t really define my persona or who I am on stage. It’s just kind of like, whatever it is that people perceive it as, I don’t really know what it is. I try not to think about it because when I would think about it, like, who am I like the quirky girl? Am I the chill girl? Am I like the stoner girl? Like, I don’t know which character, archetype of stand up I am. Like the more stressed out I would be because it’d be like, oh, can I not write jokes about this? Can I not write jokes about this?

And then people tell me, they’re like, you have a unique voice.  You have a unique thing. So I’m like, whatever it is that I’m doing, I guess is what I’m supposed to be doing.  I don’t know. Someone told me that advice once too, where you can’t really assess the art you’re making. You have to just kind of make it and it is what it is, because I don’t really want to be an archetype of a person anyway. It’s like, I don’t want to be like this type of comedian.

Yeah, I love the idea of letting other people tell you who you are, at least for a bit until you’ve really landed on something and maybe you never will.  But let me ask this, where do you get your jokes from, Olivia? Do they come to you in a certain way?  That’s a good question. I’m trying to think about my set like as a whole because the goal is to build time. So I’m like, I have like 30 minutes of time right now. And I’m like, what’s the story of it? Like what is the 30 minutes of jokes? And it’s usually pretty much I’m writing a lot about how I feel about like dating at my age, being me, trying to figure out my sexuality, trying to figure out what I want because that’s what I’m going through.

And so that’s a lot of what I talk about. And then I don’t know, maybe in five years I talk about something else.  But that’s kind of like what I’m trying to analyze of my own. Life is being like my journey with dating and men and finding out what I want and that’s kind of like what a lot of my set is. A lot of my sets also got me trying to figure out my like mental health and anxiety. So I have a lot of anxiety and then also tying that into dating and growing up like religious.  And I definitely want to spend more time writing about my family dynamics.

I think that’s coming up for me in stand up because I have so many unique things going on with my family. But what’s really hard about that is like, it’s my family. And do they want, I don’t know if they want me talking about them. So, yeah, just trying to write what I feel like I got to talk about.

I’ve had jokes where I was on this the show Kill Tony. It’s a show where you get literally one minute to do stand up and that’s all you get. And it’s a very popular show. It’s probably one of the biggest comedy shows right now and so it’s a big deal to get on because you get a lot of eyes, like I got a like a ton of followers from it. If you want to do well and it’s really easy to do bad because they set it up for you to be bad. Like they have the lights really bright. They don’t tell you when you’re about to go up. It’s a surprise. Like hundreds of people put their names in only five people go up like. It’s set up for you to fail, and if you don’t fail, you’re rewarded. But usually it’s like, they like to have bad people on the show.

And they called my name and I went out and I just did the first joke I thought of. And it was like a joke about my brother’s girlfriend. And, it went really well. And I got like a show from it. And I posted the clip online because it was like, I mean, Tim Dillon, who’s a very famous comedian, and he’s in the clip saying my joke is funny.

So I was like, I should put this online. Like this should be on my page. And my family got really upset that I posted that because it was a joke about my sister-in-law. So that’s been kind of complicated because there are a lot of things I want to talk about that I’m not sure I can right now.  So I hope that one day I’m able to be, like, a bit more open about those things.

But that might be a conversation with my family. Because I’ve had to call them and be like, okay, well, if you don’t like what I’m doing, I’m still gonna keep doing stand up. Like, I’m probably gonna do stand up forever. Which means I’m probably gonna talk about everything. So, unfollow me, I guess.

You don’t have to listen.  Like, everyone has issues with their family. Everyone has issues in dating and relationships. Like, anything personal you talk about is gonna be relatable. It’s kind of complicated because it’s like I should be allowed to talk about whatever I want to talk about. I understand that it can be hurtful or it can feel like I’m being maybe insensitive.

And I don’t want anyone to feel that way.  But also in that sense,  everyone is very supportive of all my other sibling’s careers and whatever it’s led to and like this is kind of mine and it’s very personal unfortunately. But what I’m trying to do is like still find ways to joke about those things and maybe change names or mask it.

You should get artistic license to use what you want to use from your own life. We talk about story vaults. Which is where you put things when you or others in your life are not ready to hear them. But when you’re in comedy, that’s some of the richest material. 

How have you used your siblings in your comedy? My twin brother and I, we don’t talk too much, but when I posted that clip about his girlfriend, I was like, my parents were like, really upset, and I was like, okay, I’m just gonna call him and see how he feels about it. I sent him the clip, and he was like, I think it’s funny, if you want to post it, you can post it.

So, I don’t know, it seems like everyone else in my family, as long as it’s funny, they seem cool about it. Like, my siblings are like, it’s funny. I think it’s funny. You should post it. It’s my parents that get, well, of course they get sensitive because everyone remembers all the terrible things their parents said to them.  No one remembers all the awesome things their parents said to them. So what do you think I’m going to talk about on stage? You know?  So of course they get upset about that, but maybe I’ll change perspective in a few years. And I’ll be like, I used to tell jokes like this. And now I tell jokes like this.

What a fun journey it’s been for you. It’s time for the fun question. This is my favorite question, and I have to think that you have a thousand of these. Could you share a story or a moment when you were just completely shocked or surprised at how the world works? When you asked yourself, what on earth?

I feel like I have those all the time. I know. Well, sometimes you like, you think things work one way and then you meet someone famous and then you’re like, everyone’s the same. Or you’re like, it’s not as amazing as you think it’ll be when you make it, you know? So sometimes that is like a WTF moment.

Or like, especially before moving here, like there’s so many comics I admire and was excited to meet. And then I’m like, oh, they’re just a comedian. They’re like, they were all kind of the same, even if we’re on different scales. Like we all kind of are craving deep, like deep down the same things, like acceptance and like, you just want to be funny. 

So that’s interesting. That’s kind of like, we’re all kind of the same moments. I’ve had those since moving here. But the big one was kind of what I was talking about earlier when I did that show Kill Tony. That was like a crazy day. That was like maybe one of the most wild things that happened to me last year because I didn’t quite understand how big the show was.

That’s my bad. I don’t watch Kill Tony. And so I just kind of put my name in because I was like, I’m in town. It’s in Austin. I’ll do it. And I was like down the street at another show and they called me and they’re like, you have to be on stage. I called your name. And so I was like sprinting across town.

And then they take you to this back room and they pat you down and make sure you don’t have anything. And then you just open the curtain and you walk out and it’s like a big stage and that was like, ah, but then you just kind of disassociate and do your joke. So that was kind of a crazy moment where I was like, what’s happening right now?

Like I’m just being pushed through into this space. And then after the episode came out. It’s like, I am now a part of this world, where there’s Reddit forums, and people are talking about me, and like, following me, and like, I totally was pushed into this thing I didn’t expect at all. So that was so weird, and I’m now getting off of it, but it was weird for the first few weeks, because it’d be like, oh, there’s a Reddit forum about you right now, or like, oh, you have a ton of DMs about people messaging you about the show, and that was pretty crazy. That was a big WTF moment where I was like, what did I get myself into? 

Were people kind to you? I think it’s because I got approval from everyone on the show that people were kind to me. Like, alright, he says, you’re good. You’re good. So I was good, but I definitely know some people who it did not go well and they regret doing it.  Some people have quit comedy after doing that. It’s like, it can really break you.  Cause it has a huge fan base.

Did you gain a lot of followers from it? I think I got up to 15k and I think it was at seven before then. And I’m sure if I ever would do it again, I’m sure there’d be another bump from it. And it has made people’s careers. Like if they go back, it’s a huge show and I totally did not really quite understand how big it was going to be when I was on it. Which I think helped me because I was pretty comfortable for the most part. If you would have known, it would have been scary as hell.  And now that I’ve done it, I’m like, okay, you can really do anything.  Like you can really do anything. If you just disassociate a little bit. 

Where can people see you, follow you, look at some of the clips we talked about in this episode? Give us all of the details. Online, my social media everywhere is OG Carter, and then you can go to my website, it’ll be a Carter Comedy, and I have all my dates and everything listed there. It’s also my bio, just everything. And come follow me online. 

Well, we’re excited to see you. Hopefully, Jen and I will get to New York sometime this year, and we can check you out.  JRT, we are long overdue for a trip to New York.  Well, that’s gonna wrap up this episode.  Olivia, I am so honored to have you on the podcast. I’ve always been a big fan of you and your comedy, and it’s just wonderful to hear you doing so well. I can’t wait to see you in person. Thanks for being on the Speak with Presence podcast.  Thanks for having me.


Jen V. & JRT

Jen Vellenga and Jennifer Rettele-Thomas are the co-founders of Voice First World®, a communication and executive coaching company. They train executives and leaders on the Presence Paradigm™, a communication technique created from Jen V’s decades of training actors to perform authentically, with presence, on stages, on audio, and video. If you want to learn more about how to speak and lead confidently, book a discovery call at

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Jen has been magical in helping me to identify my voice and my VOICE! The ways that she has holistically addressed my strengths and my areas of improvement have all made me feel so much more confident.

-Cate R.
Politician, Chicago, IL